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	<title>Comments on: The Matter Compiler</title>
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	<description>The public blog of the EPSRC Ideas Factory "Software Control of Matter"</description>
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		<title>By: haley</title>
		<link>http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-5081</link>
		<dc:creator>haley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>this is not a good project it suck&#039;s egg&#039;s! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is not a good project it suck&#8217;s egg&#8217;s! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Andrés Alba</title>
		<link>http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrés Alba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 09:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-224</guid>
		<description>Science fiction novel &#039;The Diamond Age&#039; 1995, by Neal Stephenson, describes the idea of a matter compiler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_Age

I am glad to see someone is starting to think for real about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Science fiction novel &#8216;The Diamond Age&#8217; 1995, by Neal Stephenson, describes the idea of a matter compiler.<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_Age" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_Age</a></p>
<p>I am glad to see someone is starting to think for real about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Handy</title>
		<link>http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Handy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jan 2007 04:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As an Undergraduate Studying the field, I&#039;d like to say how exciting these proposals are.
It is a breath of fresh air from the constant talk of sunscreen and spill resistant clothes we receive in the media and elsewere, and a step towards the concepts and possibilities that got people such as me interested in the field in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an Undergraduate Studying the field, I&#8217;d like to say how exciting these proposals are.<br />
It is a breath of fresh air from the constant talk of sunscreen and spill resistant clothes we receive in the media and elsewere, and a step towards the concepts and possibilities that got people such as me interested in the field in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: brian wang</title>
		<link>http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-184</link>
		<dc:creator>brian wang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 22:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>btw: I believe Chris was saying some people (like Hal) would think that these projects will take a long time to succeed. Since Chris has predicted full blown molecular nanotech for 2015-2020 then this advancement would likely be expected to slot in at 2009-2012. Certainly the researchers would be thinking that they can reasonably expect to do this in 3-5 years as that was the guiding timeline stated going into the Sandpit.

A lot of the capabilities exist in separate research. Although possibly not in the labs that are working on this. So their could be some learning curve mastery of known processes and research that could take some time this year. Setup, procurement and funding could take time from this year. A fair amount of what is needed is clever integration and refinement. DNA synthesis of 32,000 bases has been around since 2004 and companies sell this service at a cost of about 70 cents to 2 dollars per base. Error rates are about 2 for 10,000. Movement of molecules and charge down nanowires has been done. 

The funding amounts also are such that something would be expected to be delivered in about 2-3 years. If stuff is not completed then probably more money would need to be obtained to continue. I think the projects are properly sized and that useful (not necessarily complete) results will be possible in 2-3 years. Good luck to getting it executed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>btw: I believe Chris was saying some people (like Hal) would think that these projects will take a long time to succeed. Since Chris has predicted full blown molecular nanotech for 2015-2020 then this advancement would likely be expected to slot in at 2009-2012. Certainly the researchers would be thinking that they can reasonably expect to do this in 3-5 years as that was the guiding timeline stated going into the Sandpit.</p>
<p>A lot of the capabilities exist in separate research. Although possibly not in the labs that are working on this. So their could be some learning curve mastery of known processes and research that could take some time this year. Setup, procurement and funding could take time from this year. A fair amount of what is needed is clever integration and refinement. DNA synthesis of 32,000 bases has been around since 2004 and companies sell this service at a cost of about 70 cents to 2 dollars per base. Error rates are about 2 for 10,000. Movement of molecules and charge down nanowires has been done. </p>
<p>The funding amounts also are such that something would be expected to be delivered in about 2-3 years. If stuff is not completed then probably more money would need to be obtained to continue. I think the projects are properly sized and that useful (not necessarily complete) results will be possible in 2-3 years. Good luck to getting it executed.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Phoenix</title>
		<link>http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-182</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Phoenix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 01:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-182</guid>
		<description>Sean, the higher-order abstractions you&#039;re talking about are one of the main reasons I expect molecular manufacturing to be so powerful. If you know exactly how something it built, and exactly how it will respond to a useful range of inputs, then you can combine it with other things to make modules with higher function. Then, you know (in principle) exactly what the higher level modules will do, so you can combine them, and so on, to build quite tall towers of functionality.

A computer has perhaps two dozen levels of abstraction between the electrons and the screen. Each level is &quot;simple&quot;--that&#039;s the point of it! So you can compare levels of nanomachine design to any level of computer design you like. I have gone so far as to compare billion-atom million-feature functional blocks to CPU machine language! (Which is about halfway between the electrons and the screen.) 

I suspect that, when we start designing and building gram-scale atom-precise products, designers will want at most a few thousand options at each level. That implies at least eight levels of abstraction between the atom and the gram. I think it&#039;ll actually be 15-20. And product designers will usually want to think about only two or three levels at a time, though good designers will be able to mentally encompass four or five when necessary.

Here&#039;s an incomplete first draft:

Level 1: Reaction trajectories, potential energy surfaces.
2: Covalent structures: ball-and-stick diagrams.
3: Surface and volume structures. (Overlaps with 2 and 4.)
4: Lowest functional parts: gears, levers, wires...
5: Gearboxes, logic gates
6: Machines, circuits
7: Machine systems (e.g. assembly line, simple CPU)
8: Nanoblocks ~100 nm-1 micron
9: Nanoblock surface/volume structures; moving interfaces
10: Virtual materials (10-100 micron scale)
11: Human-interacting material properties (texture, appearance)
12: Detailed product form and function
13: Large-scale product form and function

Molecular manufacturing researchers will have to work from the bottom up in order to make these things possible. The software described here sounds like it&#039;s intended to integrate levels 1-2. That will provide a solid foundation for designs at levels 3 and 4.

Product designers will have to start at high levels. Fortunately, even a few options at each level is enough to build the next higher level on. And above level 4, designers can think mechanically if they want to. So it shouldn&#039;t take long, once large-scale hardware-building becomes available, to get a basic design capability all the way up to human-scale. Adding more options will make the product range broader and richer, but they can be filled in over time. 

Of course, different applications will need different emphases in the levels. A micro-scale medical application may not use nanoblocks. A computer will have many levels of logic: gate, register, ALU, pipeline/microcode, chip, system.

Nanofactory control software will start at the highest level and go all the way to the lowest, by using pre-canned rules and recipes for decomposing pre-specified designs. So nanofactory control is really the opposite of the project described here. It&#039;s like the difference between a machine language programmer and a chip designer.

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean, the higher-order abstractions you&#8217;re talking about are one of the main reasons I expect molecular manufacturing to be so powerful. If you know exactly how something it built, and exactly how it will respond to a useful range of inputs, then you can combine it with other things to make modules with higher function. Then, you know (in principle) exactly what the higher level modules will do, so you can combine them, and so on, to build quite tall towers of functionality.</p>
<p>A computer has perhaps two dozen levels of abstraction between the electrons and the screen. Each level is &#8220;simple&#8221;&#8211;that&#8217;s the point of it! So you can compare levels of nanomachine design to any level of computer design you like. I have gone so far as to compare billion-atom million-feature functional blocks to CPU machine language! (Which is about halfway between the electrons and the screen.) </p>
<p>I suspect that, when we start designing and building gram-scale atom-precise products, designers will want at most a few thousand options at each level. That implies at least eight levels of abstraction between the atom and the gram. I think it&#8217;ll actually be 15-20. And product designers will usually want to think about only two or three levels at a time, though good designers will be able to mentally encompass four or five when necessary.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an incomplete first draft:</p>
<p>Level 1: Reaction trajectories, potential energy surfaces.<br />
2: Covalent structures: ball-and-stick diagrams.<br />
3: Surface and volume structures. (Overlaps with 2 and 4.)<br />
4: Lowest functional parts: gears, levers, wires&#8230;<br />
5: Gearboxes, logic gates<br />
6: Machines, circuits<br />
7: Machine systems (e.g. assembly line, simple CPU)<br />
8: Nanoblocks ~100 nm-1 micron<br />
9: Nanoblock surface/volume structures; moving interfaces<br />
10: Virtual materials (10-100 micron scale)<br />
11: Human-interacting material properties (texture, appearance)<br />
12: Detailed product form and function<br />
13: Large-scale product form and function</p>
<p>Molecular manufacturing researchers will have to work from the bottom up in order to make these things possible. The software described here sounds like it&#8217;s intended to integrate levels 1-2. That will provide a solid foundation for designs at levels 3 and 4.</p>
<p>Product designers will have to start at high levels. Fortunately, even a few options at each level is enough to build the next higher level on. And above level 4, designers can think mechanically if they want to. So it shouldn&#8217;t take long, once large-scale hardware-building becomes available, to get a basic design capability all the way up to human-scale. Adding more options will make the product range broader and richer, but they can be filled in over time. </p>
<p>Of course, different applications will need different emphases in the levels. A micro-scale medical application may not use nanoblocks. A computer will have many levels of logic: gate, register, ALU, pipeline/microcode, chip, system.</p>
<p>Nanofactory control software will start at the highest level and go all the way to the lowest, by using pre-canned rules and recipes for decomposing pre-specified designs. So nanofactory control is really the opposite of the project described here. It&#8217;s like the difference between a machine language programmer and a chip designer.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
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		<title>By: sean</title>
		<link>http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-181</link>
		<dc:creator>sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 00:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-181</guid>
		<description>so we&#039;re talking about developing a molecular machine language here as part of the compiler development.   I would call it assembly language, to stretch to the CS terminology but that takes on a double meaning here.   

one could imagine the abstraction of a higher order language built on top of this with concepts like macros, functions, procedure calls, loops, side effects etc all translated to their matter-equivalents.   

It will take some effort not to conflate the terminology and to define the primitives in a manner that maintains their flexibility while still providing useful abstractions.   

I wonder if you&#039;d even want to share your first attempts with the world.  The first working language of this type will immediately enable crafting a better and more elegant language.  It may be worthwhile to keep it under wraps and release only at the nth generation where you&#039;ve followed the evolution of computer languages and finally start to divurge.   I bet this would happen very quickly once the first working protoype emerges.  

neat stuff.   I&#039;ll be keeping an eye on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so we&#8217;re talking about developing a molecular machine language here as part of the compiler development.   I would call it assembly language, to stretch to the CS terminology but that takes on a double meaning here.   </p>
<p>one could imagine the abstraction of a higher order language built on top of this with concepts like macros, functions, procedure calls, loops, side effects etc all translated to their matter-equivalents.   </p>
<p>It will take some effort not to conflate the terminology and to define the primitives in a manner that maintains their flexibility while still providing useful abstractions.   </p>
<p>I wonder if you&#8217;d even want to share your first attempts with the world.  The first working language of this type will immediately enable crafting a better and more elegant language.  It may be worthwhile to keep it under wraps and release only at the nth generation where you&#8217;ve followed the evolution of computer languages and finally start to divurge.   I bet this would happen very quickly once the first working protoype emerges.  </p>
<p>neat stuff.   I&#8217;ll be keeping an eye on this.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin G. Smith</title>
		<link>http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-180</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin G. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hal and Chris – I would suggest that success will be about as far in the future as  the collective minds can reach. I recall 2 years ago being told that CAD based Metal Casting machines were at least 10 years off. Yet, time compressed, thinking expanded and we now have two machines replicating parts with .001mm accuracy, 2 years later.
Remember the words of a 900 year old Master – ‘Do, or do not. There is no try.’</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hal and Chris – I would suggest that success will be about as far in the future as  the collective minds can reach. I recall 2 years ago being told that CAD based Metal Casting machines were at least 10 years off. Yet, time compressed, thinking expanded and we now have two machines replicating parts with .001mm accuracy, 2 years later.<br />
Remember the words of a 900 year old Master – ‘Do, or do not. There is no try.’</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Huggan</title>
		<link>http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-179</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Huggan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-179</guid>
		<description>IBM owns the patent for STMs that utilize an UHV (but not at STP).  I&#039;m glad IBM doesn&#039;t choose to hire good lawyer to aggresively enforce this patent.  All the non-IBM initiated basic nanotech research undertaken with UHV STMs would not have occured had IBM fortified their intellectual property.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IBM owns the patent for STMs that utilize an UHV (but not at STP).  I&#8217;m glad IBM doesn&#8217;t choose to hire good lawyer to aggresively enforce this patent.  All the non-IBM initiated basic nanotech research undertaken with UHV STMs would not have occured had IBM fortified their intellectual property.</p>
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		<title>By: avlo</title>
		<link>http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-178</link>
		<dc:creator>avlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-178</guid>
		<description>&quot;I would add that there is also a need to begin patenting the ideas that will make it possible to implement such a device. That will ensure   that wealth is appropriately channeled from those who create such a device to those who have a vague idea of what such a device is, and a good lawyer.&quot; - B. Bushman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I would add that there is also a need to begin patenting the ideas that will make it possible to implement such a device. That will ensure   that wealth is appropriately channeled from those who create such a device to those who have a vague idea of what such a device is, and a good lawyer.&#8221; &#8211; B. Bushman</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Jones</title>
		<link>http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-177</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasfactory.wordpress.com/2007/01/17/the-matter-compiler/#comment-177</guid>
		<description>Alas, Hal, the EPSRC budget ran to no more than a couple of glasses of inexpensive wine with dinner.  It&#039;s an explicit understanding in this kind of project that there&#039;s a significant chance of failure; as I wrote above &lt;em&gt;&quot;We were looking for a grand vision - real ambition, of a kind that scientists are sometimes reluctant to commit to. But we needed to be sure that, on the very first day of the project, it was clear exactly what the newly starting scientists on the project would do. And, while it’s obvious that for a sufficiently big vision, one can’t expect the route from here to there to be fully mapped out at the outset, we need to be sure that there are no obviously unbridgeable chasms in the way. We know, and the funders know too, that there is a significant risk of failure, but that’s as it has to be.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alas, Hal, the EPSRC budget ran to no more than a couple of glasses of inexpensive wine with dinner.  It&#8217;s an explicit understanding in this kind of project that there&#8217;s a significant chance of failure; as I wrote above <em>&#8220;We were looking for a grand vision &#8211; real ambition, of a kind that scientists are sometimes reluctant to commit to. But we needed to be sure that, on the very first day of the project, it was clear exactly what the newly starting scientists on the project would do. And, while it’s obvious that for a sufficiently big vision, one can’t expect the route from here to there to be fully mapped out at the outset, we need to be sure that there are no obviously unbridgeable chasms in the way. We know, and the funders know too, that there is a significant risk of failure, but that’s as it has to be.&#8221;</em></p>
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